Gladiatricks - a seed of a system

[Spwack]

This system started from this neat little dueling minigame. Basically, each round has an attacker and a defender. Each chooses their move in secret, and then reveals. The attacker chooses from LUNGE, SLASH, FEINT, while the defender chooses from PARRY, DODGE, BLOCK. Each outcome favours either the (A)ttacker, the (D)efender, or breaks (E)ven.

Lunge is side-stepped by Dodge (D), smashes through Block (A), and clashes with Parry (E)
Slash harries Dodge (A), is caught by Block (E), and is countered by Parry (D)
Feint toys with Dodge (E), is ignored by Block (D), and baits out Parry (A)

If the attacker wins, they deal 1 hit or attempt a manoeuvre. If the defender is Marked, they can deal 2 hits or freely succeed at a manoeuvre.

If the defender wins and the attacker is Marked, they can attempt a manoeuvre.

Weapons
Rapier - If you say what move you are using next and do so, Mark the target
Spear - Deal +1 hit against charging targets
Halberd - When you hit a Marked target, move them in any direction you choose
Sword - When you start combat, Mark one target
Dagger - When you hit a Marked target, deal +2 hits instead of +1
Axe - When you Slash and win, deal +1 hit
Quarterstaff - Never accidentally kill your opponent
Maul - Deal +1 hit against a prone defender
Shield - When you Block and win, your attacker is Marked

Magic
Fire - A target that Parries or Blocks without a shield is Marked
Ice - A struck target cannot Dodge next round
Electric - ???
Curse - ???

Characters gain 1 XP each time they:

• Survive a fight
• Win a fight
• Finish a fight with flair (win or loss)
• Form a meaningful connection
• Make a hard promise (so long as they haven’t broken a promise)

Basically, all the characters and many of the NPCs are part of a gladiators arena. Each week has Downtime and Matches, which could feature PCs fighting with or against each other. Fights might go to first blood, be fixed or messed with, with the aim of resulting in as much drama as possible. I’m still putting thought into how characters would be incentivised to “cause trouble on purpose” (my favourite definition of story games) while still being a highly combative and skill-based game. It might look like Paper Scissors Rock but with Swords (and it kind of is) but I’m hoping to including incomparables between the different moves to make bluffing and strategy play a bigger part.

What do you think? Obviously this is just scattered and unfinished mechanics, but does anything stick with you?

[chiquitafajita]

The premise sounds really fun!! I really like how there is an unknown chance of success not just by virtue of it being rock paper scissors, but like a two-sided asymmetric rock paper scissors. I think that’s its strength and you shouldn’t shy away from it—it’s worth doubling down on!

Where do dice come into play? At my first read I thought that whoever attacks/defends alternates each turn, but does that depend on a roll? If I may say, I think that the RPS mechanics for combat resolution should stand alone just like that because it’s intuitive and unique! But rolls for other mechanics, or to determine who attacks/defends, wouldn’t be out of place. I mainly ask because of the +1 listed for some of the items!

[Oblidisideryptch]

I like the seed and I think it has potential. Thoughts:

• there’s only 3 ways to Mark targets that I can see - are you intending to encourage people to use these weapons, or can you maneuver to Mark a target?
• magic seems to be a utility rather than direct damage. Perhaps magic could deal damage and/or inflict an effect?

Looking forwards to this getting expanded!

[Kingroy23]

This sounds interesting. My first thought is it seems similar to a board game I own, Combo Fighter. Makes me think you could use cards to have a lot of drama during the duel though it might slow gameplay down. What if the offensive moves were all written on white index cards, and the defensive moves on blue ones. Every player would get these cards, and then the attacker/defender slap down a card face down. Then on a count of three, flip both face up.

You could then add single-use-per fight special cards. Maybe those are gained from leveling up or training. These could have cool special abilities.

Is this system meant for player-vs-player games? I think it might be fun for an occasion duel, but would get tiring quick for the GM if they have to strategize every round on top of running the game.

[Spwack]

@chiquitafajita
Thanks! And no there aren’t any dice, I’m not sure how Initiative works but it will just alternate attacker and defender. The +1 is just to track damage, especially since there will be very few hits before a fight is over. Some will be to first blood (two hits) but if the audience isn’t impressed and the Ringleader demands it, you might have to keep fighting

@Oblidisideryptch
There will definitely be a lot more ways to mark opponents, clear marks and use them. Knocking someone down, pushing them off balance, pronouncing a curse on their lineage, having the crowd boo them, all of this and more. And all weapons and magic deal 1 hit by default, magic just has an extra effect, but if you’ve got ideas, I’d love to hear them!

@Kingroy23
It’s meant to be mostly PvP, potentially with multiple simultaneous duels, and potentially with the players resolving most turns by themselves, only getting the Ringleader involved to adjudicate and decide on how the audience responds. When it’s PCs vs NPCs, it’ll most likely be very dumb but very powerful enemies. Their strategy might be really predictable, but unless you catch on quick, they’ll mess you up. And I love the idea of single-use cards! Especially since it’s possible to have all the rules written on each card as needed

[Oblidisideryptch]

• Electric: struck target loses an action if you hit them again. Blocked by Earth?
• Curse: as long as you hit the target, they are Marked.

[quantum_metaphysics]

I actually posted a somewhat similar idea on my blog a while back about dueling, inspired by an old TTRPG called en garde! but I was also inspired by the combat in the digital adaptations of the Sorcery! games on steam. I’m not sure what it is about exclamation points and these kinds of mechanics…

[lichvanwinkle]

I think that the system probably would be fun. It’s like Rock, Paper, Scissors! You could turn the system into hand gestures for rapid play.

On the topic of more interesting fighting systems and mechanics, are you familiar with the Lost Worlds game books? Each book represents a fighting character in a different stance on each page. You trade books with your opponent, so that each player is looking at the other character. You keep a list of your own maneuvers, each of which gets a number. You call out the number of your maneuver and each player reads a key at the bottom of the page he or she is looking at. The system crunches the combination of opposed maneuvers to bring you to another page in which you see your foe. Maybe it shows a weapon hitting your foe (you hit!), maybe it shows some defensive posture and you miss.

I still have a bunch of these and I have played them with my kids. The verdict is that they don’t work well.

These descend from an older style of flip-books that came in pairs. I had an uncle who liked wargames and he has some of these. One simulated two WW1 flying aces in biplanes, another simulated two cowboys in a shootout, maneuvering around a one-road town.

All of these game books had problems, because it was easy to lose your orientation between turns/pages. But there was a lot of interest in dueling games in the '70s to early ‘80s. Quantum_metaphysics’ reference to En Garde! is right on.

The best dueling system I know is Steve Jackson’s Man to Man, from 1985. This was the precursor to GURPS, before GURPS bloat set in to make that system less approachable, and it is still extremely good compared to most combat systems. The still earlier Melee system (1977) by the same Steve Jackson was meant to allow tactical choices in fantasy combat (as a stand-in for D&D combat!) instead of a system (he means D&D) in which “you just roll until you die” without making choices.

By the way, The Fantasy Trip: Melee was reprinted as “Old-School” recently and the rules are available for free pdf download at the Steve Jackson Games vendor site. You don’t get the cool positioning chits and map with the download, but it still works well. Keep in mind, also that this came out before AD&D, in the same year as the first D&D Basic Set… This puts it in perspective.