The bounds of OSR

I think Skeletonboi is right that the two groups talk past each other. The division between the two dates to a period more than ten years ago and it’s still going only by momentum.

Story Games became a thing in 2005 in an internet spat over the status of My Life with Master (published 2003). Some people said it wasn’t a “true role-playing game.” Others said, “Yes, it is, but have it your way: it’s a Story Game!” The spat resulted in a new term that stuck and then spread as it got its own domain name and cliques.

The term OSR originated in 2008, although there are traces of gamers talking about “old-school games” before that. The oldest traces that I could find go back to the market in rare old game books around the turn of the millennium. Nostalgia for games out of print, and distaste for 3e (then 4e) combined in the early 2000s to create a market among older gamers, who had jobs and money to spare, who collected old game books. Some people called them “old-school,” riffing on the term used in the '90s for early, '80s, freestyle hip-hop. OSR was declared a “movement” in 2008, although it has been declared dead over and over since then and been a scene of acrimony.

So, basically, some gamers are still fighting over these invented terms and what they mean more than ten years later, sometimes as if the future of the hobby depended on it. As you folks are rightly noting, the two groups often do the same things. They also blame each other for doing the things that they already do themselves. What I see, instead, is a tendency for the two groups to oppose each other along the lines of cultural politics, not game mechanics. Of the two groups, the OSR pundits tend to be more overt and aggressive with their cultural politics but also to deny their political stances more.

I make all these observations as a non-OSR, non-Story Games gamer.

I often say that it would be better if we just talked about fantasy role-playing games, as it was before, but the response from OSR players is usually that OSR (and Story Games) are flavors and it’s useful to say what kind of flavor a games has.

My impression is that the OSR gamers who frequent this Pit tend to hold rules-light game values that move beyond the original purpose of the OSR (whcih was to play old D&D editions) and are more interested in moving into new territory, and that there is no single play style that can account for the preferences of everybody here.

5 Likes

It’s low-prep on the player side! I try to give myself at least a week to set things up, but all that’s expected of the players is to quickly make a character and play.

Not to drag the sublime back down to the ridiculous, there is an assumption that OSR games ignore the possibility of a character retiring happily once they’ve met their own goals. There is nothing stopping this from happening.

I find it interesting that both PbtA games and OSR games adhere to a mandate that “the game/story is what happens while you play” and not some elaborate back story.

More practically speaking, and much less theoretically, there are already OSR games that manage to make “quest for it!”, and not “drive your enemies before you, crush them and listen to the lamentation of the women”, the main goal in play. One of the things I like about DCC is that experience is based on experiencing an encounter, not surviving combat or hoarding looting money. The most the party or individual players can glean in a session is about 5 XP and, although the high attrition rate of low-level PCs DCC is muttered about quite a lot by people who’ve never played it, the mods that have been made to 3e D&D lean more into story and emergent play than a lot of folks might think.

There’s nothing stopping you from taking DCC and making PCC - Pastoral Critters Classic - something more based on the OZ books, Mouseguard, or Disney’s Robin Hood with animals.

Patrick Stuart’s blog False Machine has a series of posts for a Studio Ghibli/Fairy Tale setting that has no normal weapons, but geese are considered to be both treasures and potential weapons. XP can be given for successfully dealing with community based problems or by giving out food to others.

Most PCs are children, and a year passes between adventures.

He was also considering replacing Charisma with with Courtesy, which would reflect how people interacted with others in old fairy tales.

In addition, you might want want to look into some of the Japanese ttrpgs that have been translated. Some of those are lighthearted romps with little to no conflict, and some have the conflict on a more comedic level.

2 Likes

I have searched deep in the vaults of the archives and found a cozy OSR for you : https://riseupcomus.itch.io/under-hill-by-water

“This is an OSR(ish) game that’s about living in the cozy under-hill homes of the halflings.”

3 Likes

In terms of the bounds of OSR and the possibility of cozyness …

Here is some common play style elements in OSR

  • Players setting their own goals is not a problem for cozyness

  • As people have mentioned there is plenty of other drivers for XP besides treasure. The possibilities are endless. One point is to try and keep options open for taking risks for bigger payoffs compared to playing it safe for less payoffs, that was the original point of dungeon levels.

  • In terms of balance, thats not an issue for cozyness. For danger and monsters, I think the grittyness and darkness is reduced just from having things be fantasy violence, or more focused on challenges that don’t involve violence or combat.

  • Interacting to describe gameplay instead of relying on procedures was the basis of how d&d and roleplaying games transitioned away from being wargames. The dungeon was so important because it was what allowed a conversational style (as opposed to long “loading” times for refs and super long turns in wargames) the dungeon did this by being constrained. But nowdays there is plenty of proceedures for keeping this level of interaction in all kinds of settings with generation, pointcrawl locations, NPC relation webs and key modivations and so on. Dosent seem like a problem for cozyness at all.

  • The lethality of OSR is really important for making it more gritty as per the d&d source material which was trying not to be high fantasy. Without real danger and large possibility of things going terribly wrong than the game tends to become more episodic and character driven as opposed to roguelike. If player death is really unlikely or resurrection easy, than the game feels more like a dream were reality is bending to and revolves around the characters like in a tv show. But if player death is very easy, than the game world feels more alive and not dependant on the characters and play becomes more meaningful and characters that manage to survive become special. I’m not sure how this cold aspect would work while remaining cozy. (prehaps a campaign about stopping a bad wizard. Whenever a character is “killed” they just end up in this giant glass sphere with other people the wizard has zapped. Players then make a new character. When the wizard is defeated in duel, than the sphere shatters and everyone is free. Or some other meaningful cozy death mechanic like that)

  • Players coming up with creative solutions is compatible with cozy

5 Likes

“Cosy” style gaming is what my WHITEFRANK: Saturdayness is all about. Fairyland, but with non-lethal consequences. If a player has their character take a life a Nemesis will appear after this “definitely evil” act and remorselessly hunt them down, inspired by Captain Hook and similar villains from fairy tales, folk tales and pantomimes.
The worst most player characters will risk is being grounded, sent away for a period to boarding school or being ill (stunned) for a long period.
There are quests for each location based on different fairy tales or folk tales or children’s books, but the stakes can still be pretty high.
“Even in a fairy tale, sometimes someone has to die.”
There’s also a location where everyone’s grandma lives in their own little cottages, close to a witch wood where similar seeming but radically different old ladies live :slight_smile:

I know this is about a year late, and my apologies for this.

Have you looked at the Nu-SR stuff such as Electric Bastionland or more along these lines MAUSRITTER or LILLIPUT? They seem to match the aesthetic that you’re going for while still being OSR-adjacent.

Check them out via itch.io and their own sites.

2 Likes