Rulesets to introduce new players

Continuing the discussion from Fudging rolls and player agency:

To me, it looks like he created his own rules, which is really good. Personally, my go-to ruleset when I want to introduce new players to OSR is Maze Rats, because it’s simple and easy, but it still feels complete (in fact, the only problem I have is that there are no clerics, so running modules with undeads becomes trickier).

Hacking away a simpler ruleset (or an incremental ruleset, as the BECMI was supposed to be) is a very good way to come up with a system that will help new players to get in the scene.

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Prof DM, as he says himself, basically “stole” all the best, fastest to play, easiest to GM bits from the four or five OSR gaming systems he thinks are outstanding or the most innovative. And he is relying on heavy hitters in this sense. Hickman for XDM, Gilman for Index Card RPG, Goodman games for Dungeon Crawl Classics etc.

I feel like he finally found and figured out what I had been trying to cobble together all these years myself. So based on his videos and ideas I have started writing it all down, with the view to having a full game system on 10 or maximum 15 sides/pages.

For me the shorter and more cohesive (d20 roll + ability adjustment for everything, fewer rules, no proficiency, additional rolls etc) a system is, the more likely newbies are to read and grok it. I can’t blame a somewhat casual, busy new player for not reading the entire 5e PHB, much less remembering all of his spells and how every rule interacts with another. So I reckon if I don’t want to be occupied at the table paging through books and stopping the action, I have to provide an alternative.

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My introduction to the old-school was through a stripped-down Swords & Wizardry Whitebox variant (only magic-users and fighting-men, everything limited to 1 to 3 HD/levels, spells divided into major and minor spells, only d6s and d20s needed), and it was a blast.

I introduced my old group via Swords & Wizardry Core Rules, and later my current group through Vikings & Valkyries (this one had much less dungeon crawling, but more raiding and similar shenanigans).

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World of dungeons is a good beginner system. It’s simple yet complex enough to be interesting.

Can’t agree that XDM is OSR in any way.

https://lithyscaphe.blogspot.com/p/principia-apocrypha.html is a good resource for teaching 5e players about osr games. I quite like whitebox fmag for teaching the game, as it’s stripped down.

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Even though it’s pretty new still I’ll have to point out Electric Bastionland as a great game for new players. Simple enough that you can learn all the rules in one setting and it has both GM and Player-Facing tips and procedure for adventuring. The essays in back really drive home how to run an OSR game. The only sticking point is that the inventory system is common-sense based and not die-hard resource management. The game is not written for somebody playing in bad faith, which works for me because I won’t GM for such a person either.

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My go to is a mix of Knave and Maze Rats (referred to as Knave Rats), I also enjoy Knave ++.

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Nowadays its either Into the Odd/Electric Bastionland or Knave. When introducing new players my biggest concern is getting into play as soon as possible, and both of these are some of the best in class regarding that concern among new OSR games. Mothership is also great but I find the skills can sometimes overwhelm some new players.

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Hello and welcome to our little community. Folks are really nice around here so it looks like you will fit right in! I totally agree with you on those choices. Get them playing fast with a system that won’t get in the way or force them to learn too much their first time out.

Those games are great for people who have never even played an RPG at all before because they can jump right in with minimal explanation and just play. I’ve also had the same concern about Mothership but it looks so cool it’s only a matter of time for me. Have you seen Mausritter? It’s kind of a mashup of Into the Odd and Knave with a small “arts and crafts” angle that makes inventory and conditions easy to keep track of and a sweet mouse-based setting that fans of Mouseguard and Redwall would quite enjoy.

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My players are video game fans, so they love the “tech/skill tree” style progression. I think it’s the only OSR game that does it simple enough not to be too scary for new players.

+1 to the game list. I introduced new players to Troika! and they loved it. The amount of wacky stuff that can happen in the game is what turned them to rpgs in my opinion. The game is very freeing in terms of character concepts and (crazy) narrative.

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I agree. Well, I agree depending on the definition. If by OSR, we mean RPG rules, look and feel based mostly on the first few editions of D&D, without changing too much of the general mechanics nor adding a bunch of new concepts and rules, XDM is not OSR.

To me though those games such as that fall a bit more under the OSR Retroclone banner, which is still most certainly OSR, and I love those games.

But if we are talking about a more expansive definition, as in: far fewer rules, much more rulings. Less high level play and powergaming. Generally d20 based mechanics or derivatives. A ton of GM discretion. Way lower hit points and power level, slower progression. A focus on fun and story-telling and doing things and keeping the game going and getting away from complex skill trees, optimization, min-maxing, complicated combat and long battles. Really irreverent way of looking at the game and putting the DM front and center in order so that everyone has more fun and spends way less time paging through the books to consult rules during the session. A game that can be played or understood rather fast and easily by anyone that has ever played any edition of D&D.

Even OD&D was always all about changing the game and adding plenty of house rules, even if that had far reaching implications or effects.

In this case, if we say that the things above are (also) hallmarks of OSR, I would say XDM is very OSR. It gets complicated, I consider MOTHERSHIP very much OSR as do most it would seem. But it has little to do with OD&D or any D&D other than a very scant few mechanics and random tables. It has changed almost everything else, yet can be almost instantly, learned understood and played by any even slightly experienced RPGer or even a total RPG newbie, and I’d venture that, that it is why it is so good and popular.

It’s ultimately still a strictly traditional role-playing game. By that I mean not only that it has very distinct GM/player roles and the mechanics are mostly probabilistic within the fictional setting - this is much is true for even Vampire -, but that it also appears to be strongly linked to time and space within the fictional setting (whereas in Vampire, prep material doesn’t necessarily map out locations precisely, because places are more “background” if that makes sense). But plenty of games are like that (e.g. Iron Kingdoms, The Dark Eye, Runequest/Legend/Mythras, Shadowrun, etc.).

I don’t think beginner-friendliness has anything to do with being OSR. There are games easy to pick up (Knave, Maze Rats, Beyond the Wall), and there are more complicated ones (AD&D, HackMaster 4th edition, Perdition). Even so, I have successfully introduced multiple people to gaming via AS&SH, because one doesn’t need to know all the rules and be cognizant of all the options to join a game.

I Agree with everything you just said. But XDM leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It provides methods I cannot overlook in a book.

  1. It directly states that the Campbellian monomyth is the only way to have fun. And freedom of narrative is the main appeal of OSR to me. (i know it’s different for everyone and that’s another debate.)
    xdm3
  2. Punishing players in fiction without talking to them.
    xdm5
  3. Cut scenes? What is this a video game?
    xdm6

Wait, wasn’t XDM supposed to be at least partly satire? Because this has to be satire.

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To be honest I’m pretty sure it is. (I hope it is)

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It absolutely is.
Either way, thanks for the laughs :smiley:

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To be fair, I don’t have a problem with reading it for laughs. I have a problem with it being advertised as genuine advice. New DMs might pick up on this thinking it is “the only true and extreme way of playing the game”.

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Hehehe, thanks for linking those images, they still crack me up!

Indeed, while you could play an XDM by the book, using the XDM “system”, it is very much satire as well. I take a few rules and concepts from XDM (about 2 or 3) and use them in my game, I discard all the others. I am not advocating anyone use everything in the book! XD Especially newbies might be traumatized. On the other hand, I think anyone could learn a great deal from reading it. By making fun of extremes, or pretending that things that are not ok (but almost every GM has experienced or done in error) are ok, it is a useful mirror/satire which I think can improve any game you choose to actually run.

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:astonished: What the heck is this? Punishing players like naughty children? Are they dressed as catholic schoolgirls, at least?

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This is a rather glowing review, please ignore that part, but in the review the writer does explain a bunch of useful concepts/how XDM works, how experienced RPGroups reacted to a switch etc. I am not advocating switching your group over. XD But I thought it would illuminate a little what it is, since this thread is about rulesets. https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14739.phtml

And here the author talks some about the game himself and a GM breaks down the book: